Comments on: Missional and Henri Nouwen http://missionalchurchnetwork.com/missional-and-henri-nouwen/ moving towards a missional mindset Wed, 28 Dec 2011 06:22:40 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Georges Boujakly http://missionalchurchnetwork.com/missional-and-henri-nouwen/comment-page-1/#comment-63 Georges Boujakly Thu, 22 Mar 2007 13:51:22 +0000 http://missionalchurchnetwork.com/missional-and-henri-nouwen/#comment-63 Great quote Brad. Nouwen is a favorite writer who is idealistic. Without idealism we fall into pragmatism. A balance must be found. Not between the two but between an idealism that takes people where people are and an idealism that is too demanding of people and seeks immediate change. I shy away from pastoring simply because of the unreasonable expectations church members put on pastors and the number or years it would take to create the ethos of Nouwen's minsitry of presence. By the way, this is not Christians' fault. They have been trained by the consumerist mindset (machine) to do so and by leaders who play the consumerist church model up (come here and we will meet your children's needs better than others; or by my # days of transforming your people into minsitry zombies pundits, well-meaning as they may be). I practiced a ministry of presence when I did a corpporate chaplaincy in Montreal. It was so refreshing to go to the people's place of work, believing in your heart that you are doing the work of the church, without any program at all. Jamie, is it possible? Only if you stay and practice transformational teaching. That's a long term project. I remember my worship course prof at seminary saying it took him 17 years in one church to finally teach the people how to worship. Possible or not, please don't give up on Petersen's dream pastorate description. Yet he also said spirituality is local and ordinary. Translated: walk with the people where they are in order to gain the right to take them where they should go. Great quote Brad.
Nouwen is a favorite writer who is idealistic. Without idealism we fall into pragmatism. A balance must be found. Not between the two but between an idealism that takes people where people are and an idealism that is too demanding of people and seeks immediate change.

I shy away from pastoring simply because of the unreasonable expectations church members put on pastors and the number or years it would take to create the ethos of Nouwen’s minsitry of presence.

By the way, this is not Christians’ fault. They have been trained by the consumerist mindset (machine) to do so and by leaders who play the consumerist church model up (come here and we will meet your children’s needs better than others; or by my # days of transforming your people into minsitry zombies pundits, well-meaning as they may be).

I practiced a ministry of presence when I did a corpporate chaplaincy in Montreal. It was so refreshing to go to the people’s place of work, believing in your heart that you are doing the work of the church, without any program at all.

Jamie, is it possible? Only if you stay and practice transformational teaching. That’s a long term project. I remember my worship course prof at seminary saying it took him 17 years in one church to finally teach the people how to worship. Possible or not, please don’t give up on Petersen’s dream pastorate description. Yet he also said spirituality is local and ordinary. Translated: walk with the people where they are in order to gain the right to take them where they should go.

]]> By: Jamie http://missionalchurchnetwork.com/missional-and-henri-nouwen/comment-page-1/#comment-60 Jamie Wed, 21 Mar 2007 17:30:08 +0000 http://missionalchurchnetwork.com/missional-and-henri-nouwen/#comment-60 Eugene Peterson in his book the Contemplative Pastor: Returning to the Art of Spiritual Direction, contrasts the difference between “caring for souls” and “running a ministry”. He says you can see the difference in the way one approaches initiative, language and problems. He states, in running a ministry, I seize the initiative. By contrast, in caring for souls I must have a cultivated awareness that God has already seized the initiative. It is my role to pay attention and respond appropriately. In running a ministry, I use language that is descriptive and motivational. My goal is to inform and motivate. In the care of souls, the primary language is conversation and prayer. “It is language that is unhurried, unforced, unexcited—the leisurely language of friends and lovers…” In running a church I solve problems. In the care of souls, I explore mysteries. Gabriel Marcel wrote, “life is not so much a problem to be solved as a mystery to be explored.” We (people who have been caught up in God’s narrative) are immersed in mysteries: incredible love, confounding evil, the creation, the cross, grace, not to mentiona God Himself... Eugene Peterson in his book the Contemplative Pastor: Returning to the Art of Spiritual Direction, contrasts the difference between “caring for souls” and “running a ministry”. He says you can see the difference in the way one approaches initiative, language and problems.
He states, in running a ministry, I seize the initiative. By contrast, in caring for souls I must have a cultivated awareness that God has already seized the initiative. It is my role to pay attention and respond appropriately.
In running a ministry, I use language that is descriptive and motivational. My goal is to inform and motivate. In the care of souls, the primary language is conversation and prayer. “It is language that is unhurried, unforced, unexcited—the leisurely language of friends and lovers…”
In running a church I solve problems. In the care of souls, I explore mysteries. Gabriel Marcel wrote, “life is not so much a problem to be solved as a mystery to be explored.” We (people who have been caught up in God’s narrative) are immersed in mysteries: incredible love, confounding evil, the creation, the cross, grace, not to mentiona God Himself…

]]> By: BradB http://missionalchurchnetwork.com/missional-and-henri-nouwen/comment-page-1/#comment-58 BradB Wed, 21 Mar 2007 16:03:54 +0000 http://missionalchurchnetwork.com/missional-and-henri-nouwen/#comment-58 Al I will try to run down the source, I ran across the quote at three different sites; dream awakener, mshedden.wordpress.com and jordoncooper.com Al

I will try to run down the source, I ran across the quote at three different sites; dream awakener, mshedden.wordpress.com and jordoncooper.com

]]> By: Al Hsu http://missionalchurchnetwork.com/missional-and-henri-nouwen/comment-page-1/#comment-57 Al Hsu Wed, 21 Mar 2007 13:34:28 +0000 http://missionalchurchnetwork.com/missional-and-henri-nouwen/#comment-57 Hear, hear. I can't remember where I read this, but I recently saw an article about the founder of Young Life who was once a church youth pastor. He had a ministry of presence hanging out with kids where they were at, at school, at sporting events, other activities. His church was upset because he wasn't doing "church programs" with the kids. So he left the church and started Young Life. I love Nouwen. Where is this quote from? Hear, hear. I can’t remember where I read this, but I recently saw an article about the founder of Young Life who was once a church youth pastor. He had a ministry of presence hanging out with kids where they were at, at school, at sporting events, other activities. His church was upset because he wasn’t doing “church programs” with the kids. So he left the church and started Young Life.

I love Nouwen. Where is this quote from?

]]> By: paul http://missionalchurchnetwork.com/missional-and-henri-nouwen/comment-page-1/#comment-56 paul Wed, 21 Mar 2007 04:10:27 +0000 http://missionalchurchnetwork.com/missional-and-henri-nouwen/#comment-56 This is too idealistic but my hope would be that engaging in "the simple ministry of presence" would transform the way churches are run. For too long pastors have looked to over-functioning, CEO types as models for their ministry. We would all do well to let Nouwen, Peterson and others direct our development. Those who pay pastors don't always understand "the simple ministry of presence." This is too idealistic but my hope would be that engaging in “the simple ministry of presence” would transform the way churches are run.

For too long pastors have looked to over-functioning, CEO types as models for their ministry. We would all do well to let Nouwen, Peterson and others direct our development.

Those who pay pastors don’t always understand “the simple ministry of presence.”

]]> By: BradB http://missionalchurchnetwork.com/missional-and-henri-nouwen/comment-page-1/#comment-55 BradB Wed, 21 Mar 2007 02:31:24 +0000 http://missionalchurchnetwork.com/missional-and-henri-nouwen/#comment-55 Jamie Great comment and question. I would like to hear from others as to if it is possible, I think it depends on the ethos of the community. Jamie

Great comment and question. I would like to hear from others as to if it is possible, I think it depends on the ethos of the community.

]]> By: Jamie http://missionalchurchnetwork.com/missional-and-henri-nouwen/comment-page-1/#comment-54 Jamie Wed, 21 Mar 2007 02:27:01 +0000 http://missionalchurchnetwork.com/missional-and-henri-nouwen/#comment-54 My heart soars when I think about engaging in the "simple ministry of presence" as Nouwen describes it. For years I dismissed the idea of serving as a "pastor" because I associated it with what Eugene Peterson called "running a church." I have no desire to run a church, but everything in me cries out to be fully present to those around me, listening with them to what God is whispering in their heart and helping figure out what to do with what is heard. Is it possible to practice the simple ministry of presence without getting sucked into running a church? My heart soars when I think about engaging in the “simple ministry of presence” as Nouwen describes it. For years I dismissed the idea of serving as a “pastor” because I associated it with what Eugene Peterson called “running a church.” I have no desire to run a church, but everything in me cries out to be fully present to those around me, listening with them to what God is whispering in their heart and helping figure out what to do with what is heard.

Is it possible to practice the simple ministry of presence without getting sucked into running a church?

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