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	<title>Comments on: History of Missional Church &#8211; Part IV</title>
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	<description>moving towards a missional mindset</description>
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		<title>By: Taylor Burton-Edwards</title>
		<link>http://missionalchurchnetwork.com/history-of-missional-church-part-iv/comment-page-1/#comment-6569</link>
		<dc:creator>Taylor Burton-Edwards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 15:07:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://missionalchurchnetwork.com/?p=958#comment-6569</guid>
		<description>Jason (and anyone else)...

I&#039;d be glad to talk, listen and share on anything we&#039;ve discussed above.

The emergingumc blog may not be as helpful a place to do that for specific questions-- just because the nature of blogs, as this one here, is to post a significant article and then let comment and questions ensue.

If you&#039;re interested in posting something on the blog-- comments are open to do so. If you wish to post an article-length piece there, let me know and I&#039;ll sign you up as a blog author (right now, only blog authors have main entry posting privileges).

The simplest way to reach me is to send an email to worship at gbod dot org. When I reply, you&#039;ll get my phone contacts in the signature lines. I&#039;m out of the office this week and most of December. So the best way to reach me via phone will be cell.

Peace in Christ,

Taylor Burton-Edwards</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason (and anyone else)&#8230;</p>
<p>I&#8217;d be glad to talk, listen and share on anything we&#8217;ve discussed above.</p>
<p>The emergingumc blog may not be as helpful a place to do that for specific questions&#8211; just because the nature of blogs, as this one here, is to post a significant article and then let comment and questions ensue.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re interested in posting something on the blog&#8211; comments are open to do so. If you wish to post an article-length piece there, let me know and I&#8217;ll sign you up as a blog author (right now, only blog authors have main entry posting privileges).</p>
<p>The simplest way to reach me is to send an email to worship at gbod dot org. When I reply, you&#8217;ll get my phone contacts in the signature lines. I&#8217;m out of the office this week and most of December. So the best way to reach me via phone will be cell.</p>
<p>Peace in Christ,</p>
<p>Taylor Burton-Edwards</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Coker</title>
		<link>http://missionalchurchnetwork.com/history-of-missional-church-part-iv/comment-page-1/#comment-6566</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Coker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 17:39:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://missionalchurchnetwork.com/?p=958#comment-6566</guid>
		<description>Taylor, thank you so much for this contribution! Early Methodism has been a major influence on my thinking as our group has sought to press out a concept of church rhythms that might be effective for spiritual and societal formation - and you given me an even fresher way of perceiving it. I have many questions I would love to ask, but I think I&#039;ll do so on your blog for fear of continuing to co-opt this space. 

Thanks again!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Taylor, thank you so much for this contribution! Early Methodism has been a major influence on my thinking as our group has sought to press out a concept of church rhythms that might be effective for spiritual and societal formation &#8211; and you given me an even fresher way of perceiving it. I have many questions I would love to ask, but I think I&#8217;ll do so on your blog for fear of continuing to co-opt this space. </p>
<p>Thanks again!</p>
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		<title>By: Taylor Burton-Edwards</title>
		<link>http://missionalchurchnetwork.com/history-of-missional-church-part-iv/comment-page-1/#comment-6565</link>
		<dc:creator>Taylor Burton-Edwards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 13:41:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://missionalchurchnetwork.com/?p=958#comment-6565</guid>
		<description>Schaun and all:

A wonderful conversation, indeed.

Several thoughts through the lenses I work with...

First, a bit about what those lenses are. I am a United Methodist elder (ordained pastor) who serves as the liturgical officer for the denomination. As part of that role, I have in my portfolio connecting with and providing support for persons in my denomination (and beyond) who have are pursuing the emerging missional way of being church. I have a blog for this purpose (http://emergingumc.blogspot.com), and have lead two gatherings of folks doing this work or seeking guidance from others on how to get engaged over the past two years. Both were relatively small-- which did not surprise me.

So I&#039;m not speaking as a pastor of a congregation (though I&#039;ve had that role over the years as well). I&#039;m speaking more as a church historian and observer of where and how people have moved from fans of Jesus to followers and missionaries in his name over the centuries, with a particular focus on ways early Methodism (before 1784 on these shores) supported that happening.

In large terms, what I&#039;d suggest is that congregations don&#039;t make disciples well and haven&#039;t for about 1400 years. They can and do other things well as a format of Christian community, but this isn&#039;t one of them. What I note in presentations I make around the UMC is that what early Methodism did was NOT to plant more congregations, but rather to multiply other forms of Christian community (Methodist societies, but especially, as the basic missional unit, the class meeting) that, in network with congregations (Rule 3 of the General Rules used by Methodists to keep each other accountable required they be part of congregations, too!) actually did form and deploy many more disciples of Jesus into God&#039;s mission in the world (as we&#039;d now put it) than congregations alone or class meetings along ever could.

The class meetings really were the engine, the &quot;basic missional unit,&quot; or the &quot;band of brothers and sisters&quot; that Alan Hirsch talks about. The societies provided a support structure and vigorous encouragement/accountability for them.

And these were not congregations. They were &quot;para-congregational&quot; groups whose participants lived in network with existing congregations. Each form of Christian community did what it did well, and the result was well-formed, highly energized Christian disciples whose actions literally transformed England into a far better society. Name any of the massive social changes for the better that happened in England from the late 18th century through the early to mid 19th century, and you will find behind them the actions and often the leadership of Methodists. Prison reform, child labor laws, labor unions, the end of slave trade and the abolition of slavery across the British empire, health care, and the beginnings of social welfare support for children-- all of these were the direct result of, significantly participated in by or modeled on Methodist advocacy and even sometimes structures for getting things done. If that level of dramatic social change without a war in such a short period of time is not a sign of God&#039;s reign at work, I don&#039;t know what is.

And that level of social change happened, I would argue, because Methodists, uniquely, because they were in mission with the poor and attending worship with the most influential people in the larger community, actually had access through social networks to everyone in the country, more or less.

I say all that to encourage that whatever you choose to do with those who will seek to live the way of Jesus, to live missionally, (which I would expect to be a very small minority at first-- and that&#039;s fine!) don&#039;t segregate them from their existing social networks. Expand them. This is onefo the ways Jesus remarks about the leaven in the loaf happens. It&#039;s how things go viral-- because of contagion of passion and vision via social networks.

So here&#039;s a quick list of thoughts...

1) Look for bright eyes-- folks who seem to express some visible, bodily interest in living the way of Jesus. Invite these folks to further conversation to explore what you think you&#039;re seeing. And then if that turns out to be the case, invite them to be part of a process that will help them get there.

2) Don&#039;t think about the missional group an alternative worship service. Yes, when they get together, they may do some &quot;worshipy things&quot; too, as part of what they do (viz the early Methodist society meetings).

3) Do think about at least two levels of structure-- &quot;bands of brothers and sisters&quot; where accountability and shared action and life are the focus-- and another level of gathering/structure that gets these groups together and keeps them moving forward. These really are two different kinds of functions-- and so having both levels of structure/meeting/gathering will be helpful.

4) In terms of formation, remember what this formation is for-- it&#039;s to help them see signs of God&#039;s kingdom and join in where they can with their gifts and passion. This formation should always keep in mind that it&#039;s not about &quot;making God&#039;s reign happen.&quot; No, that&#039;s already in progress. It is about joining those signs and occasionally pointing them out as well. And this formation is much more about way of life first, and then doctrinal issues come along to help support that. This was the model of the early catechumenate (the intentional, three-year process of formation for persons preparing for baptism in the early churches). The core questions asked of a sponsor were whether the candidate was loving people well, caring for the elderly, the poor, the sick and those in prisons, and being generous-- those kinds of things, not whether they could recite the 12th chapter of Acts or could explain the third article of the Apostles Creed. Now, by that time, they probably could do both of those things, too-- because they were, as part of their process, attending morning and sometimes evening prayer every day, and so hearing lots of scripture and basic teaching, too, and beginning to get these patterns of prayer into their bones-- but all of that, all of it, was intended to give them tools for living missionally (as we&#039;d say that now).

5) Do not neglect accountability. Gather a group of 9-12 people and send them through any sort of ordeal, and they&#039;ll likely forge a lasting bond to each other. But that &quot;band of sisters and brothers&quot; is no more than a clique if they&#039;re not actively seeking to keep each other on the growing edge of discipleship and mission. That has to happen inside the group-- and it needs support from outside as well-- hence another reason for the recommendation above for at least a two-tier structure for these things (class meeting and Society, in early Methodist terms).

Finally, you may find the version of the presentation I&#039;ve offered most recently for a United Methodist emerging/missional gathering helpful. Again-- I&#039;m not at all trying to push you to be Methodist. It&#039;s just that I do think we have had in our history some good examples of the very sorts of things the missional conversation is talking about now. The presentation can be found here:
http://www.gbod.org/worship/emergingumc/ppt/wherediditgo.ppt

Peace in Christ,

Taylor Burton-Edwards</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Schaun and all:</p>
<p>A wonderful conversation, indeed.</p>
<p>Several thoughts through the lenses I work with&#8230;</p>
<p>First, a bit about what those lenses are. I am a United Methodist elder (ordained pastor) who serves as the liturgical officer for the denomination. As part of that role, I have in my portfolio connecting with and providing support for persons in my denomination (and beyond) who have are pursuing the emerging missional way of being church. I have a blog for this purpose (<a href="http://emergingumc.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://emergingumc.blogspot.com</a>), and have lead two gatherings of folks doing this work or seeking guidance from others on how to get engaged over the past two years. Both were relatively small&#8211; which did not surprise me.</p>
<p>So I&#8217;m not speaking as a pastor of a congregation (though I&#8217;ve had that role over the years as well). I&#8217;m speaking more as a church historian and observer of where and how people have moved from fans of Jesus to followers and missionaries in his name over the centuries, with a particular focus on ways early Methodism (before 1784 on these shores) supported that happening.</p>
<p>In large terms, what I&#8217;d suggest is that congregations don&#8217;t make disciples well and haven&#8217;t for about 1400 years. They can and do other things well as a format of Christian community, but this isn&#8217;t one of them. What I note in presentations I make around the UMC is that what early Methodism did was NOT to plant more congregations, but rather to multiply other forms of Christian community (Methodist societies, but especially, as the basic missional unit, the class meeting) that, in network with congregations (Rule 3 of the General Rules used by Methodists to keep each other accountable required they be part of congregations, too!) actually did form and deploy many more disciples of Jesus into God&#8217;s mission in the world (as we&#8217;d now put it) than congregations alone or class meetings along ever could.</p>
<p>The class meetings really were the engine, the &#8220;basic missional unit,&#8221; or the &#8220;band of brothers and sisters&#8221; that Alan Hirsch talks about. The societies provided a support structure and vigorous encouragement/accountability for them.</p>
<p>And these were not congregations. They were &#8220;para-congregational&#8221; groups whose participants lived in network with existing congregations. Each form of Christian community did what it did well, and the result was well-formed, highly energized Christian disciples whose actions literally transformed England into a far better society. Name any of the massive social changes for the better that happened in England from the late 18th century through the early to mid 19th century, and you will find behind them the actions and often the leadership of Methodists. Prison reform, child labor laws, labor unions, the end of slave trade and the abolition of slavery across the British empire, health care, and the beginnings of social welfare support for children&#8211; all of these were the direct result of, significantly participated in by or modeled on Methodist advocacy and even sometimes structures for getting things done. If that level of dramatic social change without a war in such a short period of time is not a sign of God&#8217;s reign at work, I don&#8217;t know what is.</p>
<p>And that level of social change happened, I would argue, because Methodists, uniquely, because they were in mission with the poor and attending worship with the most influential people in the larger community, actually had access through social networks to everyone in the country, more or less.</p>
<p>I say all that to encourage that whatever you choose to do with those who will seek to live the way of Jesus, to live missionally, (which I would expect to be a very small minority at first&#8211; and that&#8217;s fine!) don&#8217;t segregate them from their existing social networks. Expand them. This is onefo the ways Jesus remarks about the leaven in the loaf happens. It&#8217;s how things go viral&#8211; because of contagion of passion and vision via social networks.</p>
<p>So here&#8217;s a quick list of thoughts&#8230;</p>
<p>1) Look for bright eyes&#8211; folks who seem to express some visible, bodily interest in living the way of Jesus. Invite these folks to further conversation to explore what you think you&#8217;re seeing. And then if that turns out to be the case, invite them to be part of a process that will help them get there.</p>
<p>2) Don&#8217;t think about the missional group an alternative worship service. Yes, when they get together, they may do some &#8220;worshipy things&#8221; too, as part of what they do (viz the early Methodist society meetings).</p>
<p>3) Do think about at least two levels of structure&#8211; &#8220;bands of brothers and sisters&#8221; where accountability and shared action and life are the focus&#8211; and another level of gathering/structure that gets these groups together and keeps them moving forward. These really are two different kinds of functions&#8211; and so having both levels of structure/meeting/gathering will be helpful.</p>
<p>4) In terms of formation, remember what this formation is for&#8211; it&#8217;s to help them see signs of God&#8217;s kingdom and join in where they can with their gifts and passion. This formation should always keep in mind that it&#8217;s not about &#8220;making God&#8217;s reign happen.&#8221; No, that&#8217;s already in progress. It is about joining those signs and occasionally pointing them out as well. And this formation is much more about way of life first, and then doctrinal issues come along to help support that. This was the model of the early catechumenate (the intentional, three-year process of formation for persons preparing for baptism in the early churches). The core questions asked of a sponsor were whether the candidate was loving people well, caring for the elderly, the poor, the sick and those in prisons, and being generous&#8211; those kinds of things, not whether they could recite the 12th chapter of Acts or could explain the third article of the Apostles Creed. Now, by that time, they probably could do both of those things, too&#8211; because they were, as part of their process, attending morning and sometimes evening prayer every day, and so hearing lots of scripture and basic teaching, too, and beginning to get these patterns of prayer into their bones&#8211; but all of that, all of it, was intended to give them tools for living missionally (as we&#8217;d say that now).</p>
<p>5) Do not neglect accountability. Gather a group of 9-12 people and send them through any sort of ordeal, and they&#8217;ll likely forge a lasting bond to each other. But that &#8220;band of sisters and brothers&#8221; is no more than a clique if they&#8217;re not actively seeking to keep each other on the growing edge of discipleship and mission. That has to happen inside the group&#8211; and it needs support from outside as well&#8211; hence another reason for the recommendation above for at least a two-tier structure for these things (class meeting and Society, in early Methodist terms).</p>
<p>Finally, you may find the version of the presentation I&#8217;ve offered most recently for a United Methodist emerging/missional gathering helpful. Again&#8211; I&#8217;m not at all trying to push you to be Methodist. It&#8217;s just that I do think we have had in our history some good examples of the very sorts of things the missional conversation is talking about now. The presentation can be found here:<br />
<a href="http://www.gbod.org/worship/emergingumc/ppt/wherediditgo.ppt" rel="nofollow">http://www.gbod.org/worship/emergingumc/ppt/wherediditgo.ppt</a></p>
<p>Peace in Christ,</p>
<p>Taylor Burton-Edwards</p>
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		<title>By: Schaun</title>
		<link>http://missionalchurchnetwork.com/history-of-missional-church-part-iv/comment-page-1/#comment-6564</link>
		<dc:creator>Schaun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 04:22:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://missionalchurchnetwork.com/?p=958#comment-6564</guid>
		<description>Brad,

I believe I may have been able to talk several of our leadership team into making the Verge conference a priority. At least three are in, hopefully others will join. I believe this could be transformational for our team and Church as we embrace the ideas discussed in this blog. Thanks for the great input.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brad,</p>
<p>I believe I may have been able to talk several of our leadership team into making the Verge conference a priority. At least three are in, hopefully others will join. I believe this could be transformational for our team and Church as we embrace the ideas discussed in this blog. Thanks for the great input.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad Brisco</title>
		<link>http://missionalchurchnetwork.com/history-of-missional-church-part-iv/comment-page-1/#comment-6563</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Brisco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 00:39:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://missionalchurchnetwork.com/?p=958#comment-6563</guid>
		<description>Jonathan, no need to apologize. It has been a helpful discussion, thanks for instigating it ;-)  

I always appreciate your take on things. I hope we have an opportunity to discuss things over dinner/coffee some day. Any chance you are going to the VERGE conference in Austin in Feb?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jonathan, no need to apologize. It has been a helpful discussion, thanks for instigating it <img src='http://missionalchurchnetwork.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />   </p>
<p>I always appreciate your take on things. I hope we have an opportunity to discuss things over dinner/coffee some day. Any chance you are going to the VERGE conference in Austin in Feb?</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Coker</title>
		<link>http://missionalchurchnetwork.com/history-of-missional-church-part-iv/comment-page-1/#comment-6562</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Coker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 00:39:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://missionalchurchnetwork.com/?p=958#comment-6562</guid>
		<description>Jonathan, I just wanted to add my &quot;amen&quot; to your &quot;whole enchilada&quot; comment. Interestingly enough, we came to the same conclusion, and we also ended up sketching out a 3 year process that begins with spiritual formation. Incidentally, the way we arrived there was (as you said) by noticing that mission wasn&#039;t the church &quot;being sent&quot; but was, rather, God himself going out and working in the world (John 5). Therefore, for us at Ikon being missional means going where God goes and doing what God does. That&#039;s all well and good but it very quickly led to the realization that most of us didn&#039;t know how to recognize what God was doing in the world around us...which led immediately to the priority of spiritual formation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jonathan, I just wanted to add my &#8220;amen&#8221; to your &#8220;whole enchilada&#8221; comment. Interestingly enough, we came to the same conclusion, and we also ended up sketching out a 3 year process that begins with spiritual formation. Incidentally, the way we arrived there was (as you said) by noticing that mission wasn&#8217;t the church &#8220;being sent&#8221; but was, rather, God himself going out and working in the world (John 5). Therefore, for us at Ikon being missional means going where God goes and doing what God does. That&#8217;s all well and good but it very quickly led to the realization that most of us didn&#8217;t know how to recognize what God was doing in the world around us&#8230;which led immediately to the priority of spiritual formation.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Brink</title>
		<link>http://missionalchurchnetwork.com/history-of-missional-church-part-iv/comment-page-1/#comment-6561</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Brink</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 00:22:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://missionalchurchnetwork.com/?p=958#comment-6561</guid>
		<description>Brad, I know you and your writings enough that I assumed you and I were in agreement with that.  Sorry about that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brad, I know you and your writings enough that I assumed you and I were in agreement with that.  Sorry about that.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad Brisco</title>
		<link>http://missionalchurchnetwork.com/history-of-missional-church-part-iv/comment-page-1/#comment-6560</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Brisco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 00:17:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://missionalchurchnetwork.com/?p=958#comment-6560</guid>
		<description>Jonathan, I know you were responding to Schaun, but I would like to say that I agree that it is &quot;the whole enchilada.&quot; I didn&#039;t include it in this thread of discussion but in other places I have said that it should begin with spiritual formation. We must take seriously the responsibility to cultivate spiritual transformation that does not allow believers to remain as adolescents in their spiritual maturity. Such spiritual formation will involve much greater relational underpinnings and considerable engagement with a multitude of spiritual disciplines. I don&#039;t remember who it was that said it but I like thinking of it as &quot;spiritual formation for the sake of others.&quot; This will of course take place as gathered people. As Darrell Guder has stated &quot;the church is the called AND sent people of God.&quot; As you have said it is not one over the other, it must be both.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jonathan, I know you were responding to Schaun, but I would like to say that I agree that it is &#8220;the whole enchilada.&#8221; I didn&#8217;t include it in this thread of discussion but in other places I have said that it should begin with spiritual formation. We must take seriously the responsibility to cultivate spiritual transformation that does not allow believers to remain as adolescents in their spiritual maturity. Such spiritual formation will involve much greater relational underpinnings and considerable engagement with a multitude of spiritual disciplines. I don&#8217;t remember who it was that said it but I like thinking of it as &#8220;spiritual formation for the sake of others.&#8221; This will of course take place as gathered people. As Darrell Guder has stated &#8220;the church is the called AND sent people of God.&#8221; As you have said it is not one over the other, it must be both.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Brink</title>
		<link>http://missionalchurchnetwork.com/history-of-missional-church-part-iv/comment-page-1/#comment-6559</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Brink</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 00:06:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://missionalchurchnetwork.com/?p=958#comment-6559</guid>
		<description>Shaun, A group of men in my church began asking about missional seven years ago.  Much of what we found was that missional is not just sent.  It&#039;s the whole enchilada of spiritual formation in the Way of Jesus.  That is part of my initial concern in the post.  When we cut away the attractional portion, (drawing people in) we cut away the space for people to gather.  If we approach missional as simply going out, we cut out the space for people to engage the way in small tribes.

We ended up going back to what Jesus did.  We gathered people in small tribes and let them spend three years together.  And when the three years were up, we asked them to split up and start new tribes.  We built an entire process around it.  And it worked.

Let me know if you want to talk further.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shaun, A group of men in my church began asking about missional seven years ago.  Much of what we found was that missional is not just sent.  It&#8217;s the whole enchilada of spiritual formation in the Way of Jesus.  That is part of my initial concern in the post.  When we cut away the attractional portion, (drawing people in) we cut away the space for people to gather.  If we approach missional as simply going out, we cut out the space for people to engage the way in small tribes.</p>
<p>We ended up going back to what Jesus did.  We gathered people in small tribes and let them spend three years together.  And when the three years were up, we asked them to split up and start new tribes.  We built an entire process around it.  And it worked.</p>
<p>Let me know if you want to talk further.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad Brisco</title>
		<link>http://missionalchurchnetwork.com/history-of-missional-church-part-iv/comment-page-1/#comment-6558</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Brisco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 23:43:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://missionalchurchnetwork.com/?p=958#comment-6558</guid>
		<description>Schaun, one more thing. I like the attempt with the smaller community within the larger church. It will be very interesting to see how to best foster a missional mindset with that group. I think a key will be for the teaching time to reflect the missional outcomes you desire. But I also think a helpful place to initiate a missional &quot;push&quot; is in a church&#039;s small group ministry. In some cases this might also occur in the area of men&#039;s ministry and/or youth ministry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Schaun, one more thing. I like the attempt with the smaller community within the larger church. It will be very interesting to see how to best foster a missional mindset with that group. I think a key will be for the teaching time to reflect the missional outcomes you desire. But I also think a helpful place to initiate a missional &#8220;push&#8221; is in a church&#8217;s small group ministry. In some cases this might also occur in the area of men&#8217;s ministry and/or youth ministry.</p>
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